Ian Boldsworth is a prolific podcaster, artist, ex stand-up comedian, producer and writer. He’s known for early podcast hits The Ray Peacock Show (which was his stage name when he did stand-up) and the Peacock and Gamble show. He also directed the first film based on a podcast: The Parapod (A Very British Ghost Hunt), from his own Chortle nominated series. He did warm-up for shows such as Deal or No Deal and Red Dwarf, and has often appeared as an actor, notably as DVD store owner Banto in the Doctor Who episode Blink.
He currently runs an excellent Patreon channel and has just started publicly releasing a 9-part epic podcast series It’s Not A Toy, a series about the history and hidden depths of toy collecting and toy collectors, looking particularly at the Star Wars community.
The podcast is not about Star Wars, at all, although it outlines the history of the classic toy series as it relates to Ian’s own collection. The podcast is about collectors themselves, their reasons for collecting, the hobby’s relationship with mental health, and about the general collecting community and their quirks, controversies and characters.
JOHN ROBINSON: How did you come to start this podcast?
IAN BOLDSWORTH: Well it’s very Christmas orientated to be honest with you! Christmas in 22 and 23 were horrible for me, and I think sparked something. I was thinking about childhood toys and things, and I thought I’m going to try and get some of the toys that I had as a child. It’s kind of a dark thing to say but all my podcasts to seem to start with a breakdown, for example the Mental Podcast from a few years ago, many of my podcasts start with me in a bad place and I try to channel some of what passes for positivity into a new project, as a sort of salvation, without wanting to be overly dramatic.
JR: Was it always going to be Star Wars toys that you collected?
IB: Not necessarily, for instance as we talk now you can see I have a load of Smurf memorabilia behind me, which is a recent rekindling of interest, and I also collect old Garfield figures, so it could have been anything. But I decided that I wanted my vintage collection back, the collection of Star Wars figures which I had as a child, which I sold at some point and decided I wanted back.
It started with a run to find the six original bounty hunters, and that was before I committed to getting the whole run. It felt like a challenge, like being a kid. A sort of sanctuary. And that became a full mission to collect the original run.
(Ian’s self-imposed mission was to collect and display the original run of Star Wars figures from 1978, ideally but not necessarily using original figures and accessories)
JR: How helpful did you find the toy collecting community in your quest and in putting together this series? You asked various toy collectors, dealers and forum owners for input.
IB: Some of them were all right, but it was very hard to get some people to talk to me. Some of them are very hard line on what you are “allowed” to do with collections, and those especially did not want to talk. I got a lot of ignoring, emails that didn’t acknowledge the request for an interview, for instance, and just said “best of luck”. It got to the point where I felt like, is this a JFK moment, am I getting too close to something? Is there something to uncover here?
There were some like Dave from ToyPolloi (Toy restorer with a YouTube channel), Graham from The Next 17 (collecting site), Ryan from Ryan Speaks Geek (YouTube collecting channel) and Star Wars Obsessed who have contributed and are fine and have plugged the series on their social media, but others who have not responded since it came out. Many who did not reply seemed to be quite vigilant, defensive to the extent that I genuinely started thinking that there was a story there.
Some of the forum groups ban people and never tell them why, there’s no explanation of anything ever.
JR: Are they gatekeeping? Controlling who takes up the hobby?
IB: I don’t think that’s what is going on. If you are ultra cynical about this, you can say that what they are doing is encouraging people to collect in a certain way, and that certain way if very beneficial to people who are selling so there are blanket rules. For instance, having an original figure but using reproduction weapons (accessories made now which are not vintage) is a bad thing you are “not allowed to do”. If you are a purist, you could say that applies to anything which is antique, and they are just making sure things are what they say they are when they are sold, but it also means if you are selling the original ones and the accessories are far rarer than the figures themselves, then that might make you demand people collect the originals.
Because the figures themselves are very ubiquitous, there were millions of them made. There are very few rare figures, that’s a myth. But the weapons and accessories were lost, they are either under the ground in the garden, or end up lost down the sofa, there are a lot less weapons and accessories so they are at a premium, but if someone is making reproductions of those then your premium just vanishes. The original is £200 and the reproduction is £2, what would anyone sensible do unless they have been radicalised into saying it doesn’t count unless it’s the real one?
JR: Some people just want the original, even something just untouched from the time it was made? There seems to be a concern about what is genuine and what is not, like if you keep changing parts on a figure it is like the ship of Theseus, and eventually it isn’t the original anymore.
IB: I’ve got Lando Calrissian’s skiff that’s got a couple of accessories, a helmet, staff, you’d have to change a lot for that not to be the same thing: you’re never going to end up with everything changed, but that gets us round to actual reproduction figures, which is another kettle of fish. Most actual reproduction figures have got different copyright signs on them – the copyright signs of the people who made the reproduction – you couldn’t mistake them.
IB: ToyPolloi says an interesting thing in the podcast, that there is not such thing as a mint figure. They are all hand painted, so they were all different, they all have marginal differences and you could decide any minute difference in hair or eye colour makes it not “mint”. There are companies that will grade figures – give it a score out of 100 and then seal it in a box forever – and U Grading, where Unopened figures are opened and scored. Unopened boxes where the toys cannot be seen are still graded as unopened and mint, when for all we know the toy inside was broken or missing parts from the factory.
But no toy is “untouched”, it was touched in the factory and by the person taking it out to grade it and put it in the box to seal it. It’s something I can’t relate to.
For those who are trading these figures and accessories, you need to make something that’s really common really rare, and the only way you can do that is to pick on the minute differences and give things different values so they are worth more. For someone like me who just wants them on the shelf I’m not bothered about any of that, I’ll happily repaint a nose for instance, that’s had paint rubbed off, but some forums, collectors, are not happy with that, because they want to preserve the rarity of it and they keep churning out the idea of value, what happens to the collection when you die, what do you pass on, etc. I don’t care what happens to mine!
But there are some collectors and traders, forum members and owners who act as if the figures you own actually belong to them: so if you bleach a stormtrooper white because over time it’s become a bit yellow – which happens to the plastic – they act as if you have gone into their own home and bleached their own figures.
JR: It’s as if they are saying these original figures belong to society and history and you don’t have the right to change it or mend it – you are only in charge of it until you die.
IB: As if it is a heritage item, but how can something there are millions of become a heritage item, at least not for hundreds of years, surely?
Take MOCs. The “MOCs” – Mint On Card – figures are becoming rarer, of course, but the loose figures are not. People are attacked regularly for opening MOCs up: for those heritage reasons, perhaps. But if I did in fact collect MOC figures and I saw someone else opening their MOC figures I would be “good, mine just got rarer”, rather than attacking them for it. So these people contradict themselves and don’t make sense at all.
JR: Does these attitudes permeate other communities?
IB: I don’t think it does. Maybe it’s because of the size of the communities: but it’s not true about, for instance, Transformers collectors. They don’t get up in arms about reproduction figures and so on, ditto the Masters of the Universe collectors. Nowhere near as prevalent in their vociferous puritanism.
JR: What about the Star Trek universe, for instance?
IB: Not in the same respect. Historically it wasn’t a toy line, there were Star Trek figures with the motion picture and three or four of the original characters, made by Mego, but it didn’t have the expanse of the Star Wars line. Same with Doctor Who, you could get the Tardis, Tom Baker, a K-9, but none of the assistants, certainly not the previous doctors. The content wasn’t there: you could complete a collection really easily, back in the 70s or 80s.
JR: Your series talks about various controversies – collecting methods is one, reproduction figures and accessories cause endless arguments – there are other scandals, for instance who was Toy Toni?
IB: A toy dealer, who I tried to contact but got nothing back, who was buying loose figures but had also acquired a load of original – unused – card backs and the original transparent bubbles. So he put the figures in the bubbles and glued them to the cards, in his own kitchen at first until he got a proper machine. I think he claims he never said they were originals, but I’ve not seen the listings. But what happened is people bought these and consider they got ripped off, as they weren’t really original they weren’t worth anything. The early ones were rubbish, but the later ones did look nice. It rocked the community, but what was impressive was that the community isolated what the cards were, by the serial numbers and worked out which would never have been out in society, so they now have a database where you can check if your figure is in fact a Toy Toni.
JR: But.. they were all original parts…?
IB: It’s a real figure, it’s a real bubble and it’s a real card. I don’t know if he put repro weapons in there or not. Presuming all the parts were real, does it then become a real thing?
JR: Are the Toy Toni figures now collectors items themselves?
IB: Yes, they already are, they absolutely are. It’s a bit out of order to sell them as real things, but again, we don’t know if he actually did. He didn’t explicitly say what he was doing, so when he was selling stuff on eBay, he didn’t reveal that he had assembled them. But for me.. I have a carded C3PO up there, and it’s a real figure but the card isn’t real. It is a reproduction and it was gifted to me. I don’t feel I would like it any more if it was absolutely authentic.
JR: The Star Wars fandom itself can be very toxic. Within the collecting community, was there evidence of misogyny, or racism?
IB: In terms of racism, I don’t recall seeing anything in terms of toy collecting, I don’t think anyone is made to feel any less welcome due to their race. The people in the community who target or attack people do it based on collecting ideologies, not on race, they treat anyone like crap!
Misogyny is a more difficult one within that community. I am a former comedian, and in that role I was allowed to say naughty things, in a role, to entertain myself as much as anyone else, that was my style. So when I have seen examples of what might be straight-laced misogyny in the forums and elsewhere I might be more inclined to say, ‘’I think they are joking”, but sometimes there is really blatant stuff: behind the walls of certain fan groups there is a different undercurrent. Perhaps there are people who have never had a partner or have split with their partner and they say, right, well, I’m going to have my bachelor pad and get my old toys again... and there’s a little undercurrent there, and comments like “oh, she wouldn’t let me have these, but she’s gone now...” There is a disdain for women, worn like a badge.
JR: Is it enough to keep women from joining in or taking part in the hobby?
IB: I’ve had mixed messages on this to be honest. I couldn’t find a woman to be on the podcast. I have a friend (Dr. Kate Cherrell) who agreed to be on, who was a reliable narrator of my own experience. But anyone who is a female collector potentially is more vigilant, so if a stranger contacts them, saying I’m doing a podcast about Star Wars, they may not be who they say they are, or nothing of the sort, you know, a minute later you’re getting a dick pic, so I understand the reluctance. So it could have been that they just didn’t want to do it, it could have been that they didn’t want to open themselves up to more abuse than they always get anyway. The female Star Wars fans, unless they act in a certain way, tend to be kind of brought down or attacked. To present as in being one of the lads, to appear in a certain way.
I wouldn’t like to say definitively and I certainly don’t want to tar everyone with the same brush either, I don’t think it’s as widespread as it would perhaps seem to be. But when you see that community response – like to the Acolyte – you wonder what’s your actual problem with this show? Are you hiding your real reasons for disliking it in the actual criticism it deserves, if it had been a work of genius would you still have been poking at in the same way?
JR: I’m not a follower of Star Wars to that extent, I haven’t seen the Acolyte, but I can compare what you are saying to the reaction to for instance Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor, or Ncuti. Even if there are weaker episodes, that becomes an excuse to attack them.
IB: Yes, and I don’t think anything that’s been created, if it’s had effort put into it, deserves that. If you can’t say anything nice, I’m not going to say anything at all. But there’s currency online, we’re being horrible. I think you get a skewed idea of quite how toxic the community is because the toxic ones are the loudest. And I don’t think that’s got anything to do with Star Wars, they are just people who have attached themselves to Star Wars – it’s just the size of the thing.
The whole community can feel under attack when you throw a blanket over the Star Wars fan community and say, no, they’re all like this. And some of that guilt has to go to Disney and Lucasfilm, who have expressly said it, or at least implied it.
JR: So did you complete your collection, and what is next?
IB: My goal was to complete the original collection and to spend an average of £5 on each figure, it’s clear I did that but it’s still the wrap around story for the podcast.
JR: But to be clear, it’s about collecting and collectors, not about Star Wars?
IB: It's not. It doesn't matter if you look Star Wars, so you can hate Star Wars. You can hate Star Wars, hate collecting hate toys, hate the collectors, and I still think it's an interesting thing to listen to.
JR: It’s about people. And foibles. I love the word foibles, it forces you into a New York accent.
IB: Yes, and it’s about a probable breakdown.
JR: And what will you collect next?
IB: You can see I’m collecting a few Smurfs. But that’s the room I’ve got for it, it’s not going to expand out. And it’s pretty much full already. So I can get maybe five more Smurfs and that’s it. But I don’t know if it’s a sign of where I am in my life, but I’m going back to original toys. I’m wanting original stuff. I wonder if it is a safety thing, or because the world feels particularly fraught at the moment. I remember the miners’ strikes, I remember Thatcher, I remember the Poll Tax riots, the 2012 Olympics when there were riots. But it feels like what is going to burst next is going to be catastrophic rather than being an inconvenience for two weeks. I’ve certainly withdrawn from being out and about very much, and I’ve kind of tried to surround myself a little bit with things that feel safe. And you don’t know with new things if they will feel like that.
After two awful Christmases, I want a return to, not my childhood, but those magical ideas again, I want my Christmas tree to have my old toys underneath it, like Yahtzee and Downfall, to reacquaint myself with that feeling as an adult and put some safety around it, to roleplay Xmas 1979.
JR: Lastly, you do see these figures as toys, when do they stop being toys?
IB: I guess that’s about the attitude to them. It’s about people forgetting what they are because they’ve become investment pieces. Very specific and protected. The last thing anyone who’s like that is going to do it play with it, or even have it out the box. As a kid, I didn’t really play with them, I tended to just put them in scenes, but they were out the box at least. So I think it ceases to be a toy when all remnants of what it was originally for have just ceased or when it is sealed in a Perspex box or when it’s in a lock up, a Yak Face in a lock up with 300 other Yak Faces!
Essential Information
Ian Boldsworth’s Patreon here
It’s Not A Toy is available on Spotify
It’s Not A Toy is available on Apple Podcasts
Bluesky: here
on X: here
Pictures courtesy Ian Boldsworth.
